Suggest A Topic for Discussion
Mon, 09/15/2008 - 8:26am — Webtech
Are the CIRNA-Related issues that you'd like to see discussed in this forum. Suggest a topic for discussion.
You can also suggest questions for our Speak Up survey (answers must be multiple choice).
Hi Grace
I know a number of people in that area that would be good sponsors. But the relationship between "one addict talking to another" needs to be by our own choice to work as it is supposed to. Our family often takes care of us when we are using and we have come to understand that this just makes us weaker. It is the same when we get clean. Yes, we need others but those afflicted with the same disease have proven to be of the most help. We are guided to select our sponsors in the program. Getting someone who "has what we want" and that we feel we can talk with works well and is an important step in our taking care of ourselves. Personal responsibility is stressed over and over in our literature. Hope this helps you and good luck.
Care for my son
So I turn to this site, while looking for a NA meeting for my 17 year old son. I'm specifically looking for meetings and a sponsor for him. I don't see a lot of options for Temecula/Murrieta. Can anybody let me know how to find the best options for him?
I appreciate it! :)
Loving The Light NA shines for me!
I have lived in the dark for so very long, and participating in my recovery keeps all the lights on for me so that I can light the way for others and I dont remember ever feeling the way I feel about myself or the world around me until the steps of Narcotics Anonymous showed me how. I love me & I have never been able to say that before!
THANK YOU NA!!!!!!!!!!!!
DALENE
What am I doing here in NA?
Remembering why I am here
I am reminded this week to step back and reflect on what go me into NA and recovery in the first place. I was homeless, by choice, and running a muck on the streets when I was arrested 1 more time and the Judge saw fit to give me a chance to go into treatment and I CHOSE to go. There was no forced treatment for me. I CHOSE it over the 5 years they had offered me.
I was released O R and propmtly got loaded and stayed that way until the day of my next court date. I CHOSE to walk into court that day, 1st time in my life not in custody that I ever walked into court, and the Judge gave me 30 more days to get into treatment. I left court that day and promptly got loaded. Once again I CHOSE.
On April 7th, I CHOSE to go out of town with my folks for 1 week and then return to go into treatment the following day. I promptly attemted to get loaded the minute we got into town and was able to and God interviened every where, keeping me from being able to score or get high. The following morning I CHOSE to accept the ride to the treatment center and I CHOSE to stay every day for 6 months.
That was a few days ago now and I still Choose to be in recovery and attend meetings and be in service. I Choose and no one chooses for me.
Just thought about the reason why I am in recovery today. Why I am in service today, Why I answer the phone when members call me today. Why I do my level best t care for all in recovery today. Why I sponsor people today. Why I have a sponsor today. Why I do not use no matter what today. Why I do not associate with people who do use today. Why I pray today. All because I continue to CHOOSE to for myself....
Inviting a Loving God into the decision making process
Just though this might spark a reply or input from any one.
Cool Road trip
About 24 from the desert went down to the Day of the Dinosours in Norco in a mob, sorry group, and we had a blast. BBQ and caught some good shares by a few members that have stayed clean a while, attend meetings and said they have worked the steps.
I heard a lot about a relationship with a sponsor and that was good for me to be reminded. I also heard some good stuff about our, i'll say my, duty as a member to do all in my power to make the new people fel welcomed and cared about. Nothing else to say about that as i may be lecturing.... blah, blah, blah....
Hope to see someone using this forum again soemday, if not, your loss.....me
Wow
Been looking for any kind of inpout or ideas from others in CIRNA and it appears this forum has petered out. Haven't seen anything posted here in quit a while. I miss the input from peers in recovery and some of the other comments as well.
CAR learning day was great and really was insightful. Thanks to CIRNA RD and RD Alternate coming out to MBA for the meetings and really appriciated thier efforts. The tunr out was small, bad weather, long drive, etc.... Any reason is good enough for some.... Sorry, we did moss you all though, especially my area where it was held.....
Looking forward to road trip to the Day of the Dinosours in Norco tomorrow. Some will be meeting at the Starbucks in Yucca and heading out at 9am. We will see you there..... or not.
It looks like I will be following suit and not dropping in here as often and will just continue to have my interactions in person at the meetings and functions I am blessed to be able to attend.
See ya soon.....me
Feeling at home in a meeting
As a member with a couple days clean, I have found feeling at home and comfortable in a meeting to have changed the longer I have been clean.
I was told today be someone who had recently relapsed and came back to a meeting that a member approached them and gave then thier number and told them to call, day or night, if they felt like using again and they would be there for them.
Well, that guy said he felt more welcome today than ever before in a meeting, any meeting. Is it because he shared for the first time? Is it due to the recent relapse? Is it because the other member approached him and extended the hand of recovery? Is it because it was a small meeting? Who knows....
I have just been reminded that the few days I have been around NA means nothing if I am not involved in NA at the basic level...... Putting out the helping hand of recovery for the addict still suffering....
Helping a new member
when a new member, someone in the first 6 months or so, is railroaded-voted- into a service position as a secretary, are we doing this member a disservice?
How about the seretary that has a relapse and a new clean date? Do we continue to have them as our meeting secretary? Meeting Treasurer? A GSR or RCM? Chair or Treasurer of a subcommittee?
Have been seeing this happen and really was wondering what others think. I understand every group is automomous and makes thier own guidlines-if they have any. Just curious what othere members think about this and if they are seeing it happening...
Excellent topic Eric....
Hope more people will chime in. Amazing that only 3 or 4 people are acutally only using this Forum. Let's see what we can do to get more people invovled. Or....
Looking for input
Been suggesting to members to get on here ande let thier input be heard. There is a huge wealth of recovery and information in our area and region and it would be great to hear from many....
The topic has been on mmind for some time and my concern for the new member as well as the group. my opinion is the member is really not focusing on thier personal recovery and the group is guided by a very new memebr...
oh hell yeah!
Good point Eric. I was at a little gathering the other night. I was listening to someone bitch and grouse about this, that, and everything. I thought, "he sounds just like my father," bitter, grumpy, negative. And on the way home I remembered, I often sound just like my father...bitter, grumpy and negative. It set me on edge, reminded me that I need to really watch what comes out of my mouth and improve my attitude. The world is changing. I don't like all those changes, but that doesn't mean that others have to feel the same way. Every time I observe some behavior, especially in another addict, that makes me want to scream and shout, I'm reminded they are simply my mirror. I find that those of us with strong opinions and even stronger personalities have some difficulty being part of groups. We tend to want to take over and control. We know (or think we know) what's best. Sometimes we really do have great information, but not the people skills to get our message across without railroading the committee or alienating one and all. I know this is true for me.
And I usually follow the same path. I'll send out one of my famous emails. Then regret it, especially when I've started yet another confrontation. Then I have to make an amends. And on it goes. I remind myself, if I didn't start the battle, I would not be in the way.
How do I truely let go of issues?
This is something I have had the repeat privilage of working on. Letting go of issues within myself and with others, that I thought were delt with.
I have had some real issues with people in the fellowship in the time I have been clean and have been reminded- by my sponsor and people in my support group- "the things people do that make me the craziest are my own defects looking back at me..." I believe this to be true, most of the time. When people talk Sh-- about me or others and it bothers me, the biggest reason isn't what anyone else is doing, it is the fact that I have done the same in the past and am working on this defect in my recovery. I know this is true for me... I really want to get input on how to move out of the frustration faster and into the solution for myself.
When I have found solice in letting go of something and then the subject is revisited, I get all wrapped up in it again...
Anyone else struggle with this?
Claw marks are left by me on almost everything that I let go of and is better off out of my life. Predjudice, anger, intimidation, fear, frustration, etc.... I wonder if I am the only one that has this issue.
What are your feelings about "One day at a Time"
http://reverbnation.com/tunepak/2042171
Outreach for Southwest area
Hello Everyone, my name is Bryan and i am the Outreach Chair for the Southwest Area. I need your help! As you know or maybe you don't know but Southwest area of NA is a very large area and we as a committee can't be in all places at once, so we need your help, we are looking for interested members of the Southwest area to be of service in any form, Our committee meets the 4th Saturday of every month (except this month, this month we are meeting at the unity day picnic location) at the 5:00pm 26871 Hobie Circle, Ste A-7 in Murrieta, A lot of the current members are from Temecula and Murrieta area and we would love to get members from Hemet, Lake Elsinore, Aguanga, San Jacinto, Idyllwild, Beaumont and Banning. I know this is a lot to ask but, like i said we would love to be everywhere. The help can come in many forms, from just letting us know about your meeting and how the support is for that meeting, or if you know any meeting within those area's that need support. We as a committee would love to come to your meeting and help in any way. You can reach me by email or phone. my email is na4brybry@msn.com or cell phone number 951-219-8475. Thank you, Bryan
Open positions at Region
I heard this month that we have many open positins at Region and it concerned me.
Open positions at Region
I appreciate the concern which is been rose. The things need to be sorted out because it’s not about the individual but it can be with everyone.
Motel Reservations
The beginning of depression that leads us all to AN
This topic not only needs to be explored and discussed (it may explain alot to many people that just "don't get it", but may force legislature to be more liberal with funds for mental health. This is a disease. Like aids, diabetes, and high blood pressure. Yet if you look at the studies, we have gotten nowhere with the why it happens and certainly no financial help. As a matter of fact legislation keeps slicing the funds for this much needed cause. Yes, I am for supporting children's education, and in my state its called "No child left behind" But I would like to say with first hand experience, they (the children as well as adults) are being left way behind emotionally and with proper treatment could save the ruining, self esteem and lives of many good and great minds. HELP>
Area guidlines for the'Bigger Issues'
Since GMA is still with CIRNA until the soapbox is flipped over again, I pose a question of thoughtful consideration. When areas approach issues such as moving or changing regions, is it prudent to have a simple majority vote in the area level guidelines for the vote to pass/ fail??
Might we consider a 2/3 or unanimous vote of GSRs??
Group Coscience VS Guidelines
I see this is the issue. If the group/area conscience is so closely devided then as a member I would like to think the issue would be sent to ADHOC for further discussion and everyone in the area would be invited to be heard. Having only a few member from an area decide such a closely devided issue seems to me to be out of principle. Concepts of Service talk about the process of inviting a Loving God into the decision making process and when an issue is so tightly devided, by 1 or 2 voting members present, I would like to think, as members, we remember that every members input is valid and needs to be heard and respected.
I hope for an amiable decision to be reached where all members are satisfied and served. If that decision is a move to another region, a devision of the area and part of it going to another Region and part staying in CIRNA, whatever the decision as long as the fellowship and members get to be a part of the process.
Clear Group Conscience & Voting
I'm glad this thread has popped up but a little sad that there hasn't been much discussion. So, I'll wade into the waters. My perspectives on group conscience has changed the longer I'm in service. I'm sure that I used to think simple majority was a good enough indication that an issue should pass or fail. However, having been at the rodeo for some time now, my thinking has changed. On simple issues I still see the merit in simple majority voting but the more I consider the 12 concepts, concensus(sp) based decision making, and group conscience the more I see where in "larger" issues a simple majority is not a clear indicator of god's will or the fellowship's. My belief is that when we have clear division of the voting participants that is actually an indicator that the issue may need more discussion, research, or no action at all at that time. Ponder this, if we all have the best interests of the fellowship at heart and we all share that common purpose, then what does it mean if an issue only passes with couple of votes that makes it a majority? Or if we are tied in the vote? I'm reminded of the 9th concept specifically in these instances. If my thoughts were on the prevailing side, I wonder what information the opposing participants had or needed that directed them to vote differently from my own. Just some thoughts.
Clear Group Conscience & Voting
The idea of an Adhoc committee overturning group conscience is troubling at best. At the Area level we are "trusted servants" and we operate at the direction of our GSR's who represent group conscience of their group.
When an individual or individuals disagree with a vote in a group, they have options. They can go to the groups, encourage others to go to the group and attempt to change group conscience. Working within the appropriate response.
My wife SallyE would like to say a few things on this.
Disagreements with group conscience are common and feared by some in NA. Sometimes members find very creative ways around votes they personally disagree with. This looks like one of those creative ways. To have an ad hoc committee decide close issues for the area's groups seems like a subversion of group conscious. The only way this could be done is for he GSR's to vote to allow an a hoc committee to make this decision on an issue by issue basis.
I have had many, many experiences with group conscience over thy years. I was present when the trustees voted five to four to allow special interest meetings in NA. i.e. women's, men's and gay meetings.
I was also present and adamantly agreed with a motion before the conference. I agued passionately for it and it was narrowly defeated.
The following year I brought the same motion to the floor of WSC
and again it was defeated. I knew I and others were right but had to let it go. (Third Step work) Two years later someone brought the same motion to the floor of WCS an it passed overwhelmingly. Sometimes you just have to wait for group conscience to catch up with you. (lol)
Yes we need to listen and carefully consider opinions and arguments for or against a motion which we have a differing opinion on. As members of groups we have a say in who we elect as our GSR and the directions we give them to take to area. In any area there are always meeting who don't have GSR's volunteer to be one. Go to the various meetings and present your view point at these meetings. When you can tell a votes is going to be close ask for the motion to be tabled and an ad hoc committee to by formed to study the issue and com back with a recommendation. If all else fails let it go and if you are right it will eventually be resolved in God's time.
Thanks for enlightening
Your comments are well founded and you touch directly on the topic of specialty meetings which I addressed under the heading Gay Meetings, do we still need them? I should broaden that to include young people's and stags. I for one and beginning to question the idea of separatism. But I'm not about to take anything to a vote at this point. I have seen many motions railroaded through committees, even if the motion does not best serve the fellowship of NA.
I'd be interested in your thoughts about specialty meetings and Unity (Tradition 1) at this point in NA.
Gay groups still needed? Not
Gay groups still needed? Not up to me. World Service has voted they can exist. So, if 2 gay people want to start a meeting they are welcome to.
I know many NA memebers who would not have come to NA if they had not found a "womens meeting" a "gay meeting" and even some men who don't relate many issues except in a "stag" meeting. As long as a meeting does not turn away anyone with the desire to stop using drugs it is keeping within the tradition of unity. In Orange County there are HIV/AIDS NA meetings, btw.
Would a loving God turn any away? The principles of recovery point to inclusion not exclusion.
The statement above partially posted below really concerns me.
"Group Coscience VS Guidelines
I see this is the issue. If the group/area conscience is so closely devided then as a member I would like to think the issue would be sent to ADHOC for further discussion and everyone in the area would be invited to be heard."
Guidelines are for the Area Service Committtee and sub-committee's, NOT THE GROUP! ASC's serve the groups interest, they do not dictate it.
An Adhoc committee cannot take a vote that is biding on a group. That is attemptiing to circumvent grcup conscience. It would bring a revolt against any ASC that tried it, promise.
Ok
I see the process of Informed Group Conscience as allowing all involved to be heard. I would like to think the Group, Area, Steering committee, what ever body-would want to seek the true conscience of the body and a good way to do that is to ensure everyone involved is allowed to participate in the process. This can be done in a few ways and an adhoc of that body can be a way to do that. Announcing it for 30 days before taking it for a vote is another way. As a member, when i am talking about an issue, i need to remember to not be forming a following or possee to go with me to the vote... Seen this happen before. not really unity.
I did say group/area send it to adhoc. As far as guidlines being only for an area and not having any at a meeting/group level, that seems odd to me. a group and or meeting should be having some kind of schedueld- monthly perhaps- business meeting to allow all members to be a vioce in how the meeting/group runs. I am hopeful this helps. If not, o well,,,,
Thanks Phil
I came into AA through a gay couples meeting some 30 years ago. I doubt I would have even attempted recovery if it had not been a gay meeting. Over the years I stuck closely to gay meetings because I was afraid to venture out. But, at the same time, I was also invovled in conventions and many other activities, so it was equally a positive experience. Here in the desert I find that they do not promote Unity. There are a few straight women who go to the gay NA meeting and attend mainstream NA on a regular basis. There are 3 guys in the same pattern. All the rest attend AA on a regular basis. If the gay meetings are a port of entry, as you mentioned, that would be advantageous. But they don't seem to be. The bulk of that meeting's fellowship scurry back to the safe harbor of gay AA.
Years ago I was at a gay speaker meeting in Palm Springs and the speaker was a straight woman with long term recovery. I don't remember her story: what I remember was the importance in her message of hearing recovery from the point of view of the mother, from the point of view of the father, the son and daughter. So I have had to branch out and hit a lot of mainstream NA meetings in order to hear the message from every point of view. I don't always relate, trust me. I'm so tired of hearing this or that addict talk about discharging their parole number (never had one, don't relate). I don't relate to cheating husbands, unruly kids, pets, and a few other things. But I relate to the human condition and need to be a part of NA at large.
Over the past 2 years I have put myself in a lot of service positions in the mainstream for two reasons. One is to expand my recovery and keep me connected to NA as a whole incredible fellowship. The other (what egotism!) is to let the mainstream fellowship know that gay addicts are just addicts with the same needs and concerns. That makes me an ambassador...perhaps, and I want people in NA to know we're just the same. Doesn't matter about sexual activity. Maybe I can help break down a few stereotypes or boundaries or fears.
Thank you Webmaster
Your story validates so much of what that 5-4 decision has meant. Glad there wasn't an Adhoc committee brought together to overturn it, lol. It would have been overturned if that was the service structure. Thank god the groups are autonomous and not subject to those who would circumvent it's will through means suggested above.
Welcome Phil
It is interesting about the Ad Hoc vote. Early in AA's history, certain people (read "queers") weren't overly welcomed and AA central office did not want to list their meetings indicating G for gay. So the gay alcoholics branched off and started their own fellowship. It is not necessary for meetings to be recognized by WSO to be valid NA meetings.
But the point is well taken. There are lots of people who don't want people different from themselves in their meetings.
Adhoc vote etc.
I've gotten some feedback from a number of people that couldn't believe anyone in recovery would suggest a thing so absurd.
You are right about NA meetings not needing recognition from WSO. The process is the reverse. It is that meetings decide to recognize WSO. Most NA meetings go without recognizing WSO for a year or so at least. I'm certain there are NA meetings that have been going on for years that do not recognize WSO.
Principles keep those who would not want people different from themselves in meetings from having their way, thank god.
Heard you say mainstream NA meetings
Nice to hear and been nice to meet you and see you in the service circle.
I feel specialized meetings have thier place as well as all other meetings. Open, closed, participation, men, women, topic, step study, book study, they all have a role in the recovery process for many of our fellowship. I have always thought attendence at only a specialized meeting could seperate our fellowship and not allow others to hear a message that could change thier lives.
We all have plenty to offer and can only do so if we attend the fellowship...
RE: Heard you say mainstream NA meetings
First you say "I feel specialized meetings have thier place" and then "I have always thought attendence at only a specialized meetings could seperate our fellowship"
I think it innappropriate to have an opinion about what meetings others should attend.
Maybe we should have an Adhoc meeting about it. :)
Only
I guess the word only escaped you. If any one attends ONLY specialized meetings they could be seperated from the fellowship...
It's ok, i get it
thanks on that
Yup, that was my point. I must have missed ONLY. But, here's the deal Eric. I know many, hundreds perhaps of people, who ONLY attended specialty meetings. In this case "gay" AA or NA. But, I've figure it this way: Our primary purpose is to stay clean and carry the message.
Truthfully, right now, I wish I could not go to meetings at all!
I have felt the same way,
I have felt the same way, about not attending at all.
I am grateful for a sponsor and peers in recovery that remind me of the disease and all it stength and cunning. Without meetings and the process of recovery- giving it away in order to keep it- I am finished... Thanx for your input ...
don't get me wrong...Phil
I'm speaking only of my own personal experiences here. I started this dialogue for the LDA Newsletter. I've gotten some interesting and divergent opinions and that's what I sought. When I put the topic up, I began to realize the change in my attitude. But in no way am I attempting to tell others what to do. I changed my mind about the relative importance of separateness recently; but that's also the reality of the real world. Like minded people of various age groups, racial and ethnicities band together for commonality in thoughts and actions and customs.
RE: don't get me wrong...Phil
That post wasn't made by you Webmaster. It was another poster. I think you and are very much on the same page with the issues that have come out here. :)
I don't think it anyone’s business what meetings someone else goes to. Your story illustrates going to "specialty" meeting worked pretty well.
As I reflect, all meetings are specialty meetings, aren't they? In their autonomy they develop their own "culture" and are all unique. I've been to thosands over my years clean (I started in A.A. too btw and still go occassionally) and never found one the same.
I see
Sorry for getting the varied/split opinion attacked.... It seems it is ok for one to have the same split/varied opinion and not be absurd..... Seems there are some personalities before principles.. Nothing new to me, seen it for some time.
See?
Qoute EricB
"see
Sorry for getting the varied/split opinion attacked.... It seems it is ok for one to have the same split/varied opinion and not be absurd..... Seems there are some personalities before principles.. Nothing new to me, seen it for some time."
I've seen this so mant times. When one can't support their position they claim they are being personally attacked.
I posted infornmtion from a variety of NA sources to disagree with your Adhoc dictating to groups idea and showed the contradiction in your statement about special meetings. There was no personal attacks here till youir saying I am putting "personalities before principles" Show me where I did that if you are going to make the charge.
See?
The comment was in reguards to the attendence of ONLY specialized meetings and nothing else. It appears I had the same opinion as another member, there being a place for specialized meetings as well as seeing how they seperate from the fellowship when they are the ONLY meetings a member attends.
It appeared to me there was some discontent with my comment about specialized meetings. My comment and not that of someone else that seemed to me to be similar.
As far as ADHOC dictating, i understand they are given opprotunity to review topics and bring back varied ideas for solution, not to dictate, as you have said. A meeting, group, area can set a date for a discussion-ADHOC- to seek solutions for an issue. All i was suggesting.
See
In our area the Chair is the only person who can form an ADHOC committee under the guidelines.
Glad to hear you are moving away from circumventing group conscience by having an ADHOC committee rule over a groups conscience.
the intent was always one of
the intent was always one of solution finding and not ruling over.
So
A majority vote in a group or area meeting (except matters of money requireing 2/3rds vote) reflects God's will and Roberts Rules of Order, right?
Glad everything is as it has been over decades in NA. and everywhere else there is a governing body.
Consensus is a great thing to work for as the Area Planning Tool indicates.
Remember please, that a mojority vote on an issue only takes another majority vote to overturn. No need to circumvent the process.
Letting go of differences
It is a great concept I see i still need to keep on the front burner and I am not alone. Differences in any area..... Great to know I am not alone....
Letting go of differences
"Letting go" is a great concept. None of us are ever alone. Thank god for that.